As a family doctor, it took so much time to explain the pros, cons and alternatives to patients coming in for flu shots that I finally gave each a consent form to sign in the waiting room that explained what was needed for informed consent. About half decided not to get it, but many got the shot for reasons such as "I always get it" and "My wife [a nurse] will kill me if I don't get it". A mixed result, even when we had evidence that the flu shot did not work.
It's amazing how little thought so many people give to what they put into their bodies and how easily they abdicate responsibility for their own well-being, yielding to coercion instead of simply saying 'no'. I personally know of someone who, after taking a flu shot many years ago, was stricken with Guillain-Barre syndrome and was paralyzed for 3 months before eventually recovering.
I totally regret having a few in my life, and also giving them to some of my patients.
I knew they were useless. As I remember, it even said on the insert that they might help only a small percentage.
I took my last two because my husband was in Long Term Care with Lewy Body dementia, and the facility wanted all visitors to take them..... sounds like a familiar coercion now!
Thankfully unlike some other vaccines (coff-coff) the flu shots seem fairly benign, or at least as far as we can tell, other than local reactions and feeling a little off for a day or two. So probably not a disaster to have had some.
Actually flu shot "side-effects" are the most compensated vaccine injury claims in the US. Perhaps this is related to the number given. I had a patient that developed Type 1 diabetes after a flu shot, so they are not benign by any means.
Why do some diseases like chickenpox appear to disappear after a vaccine program, but shingles (usually a much worse disease in many cases) then becomes more common and begins appearing in younger people? My theory is that the vaccine makes the person sicker by interfering with the "defense mechanism", so that a superficial acute disease like CP can not manifest. There is less "umph" to exteriorize the symptoms of chickenpox. Thus it stays in the deeper tissues, including the spinal cord, and, with a weakened host, more easily comes out as shingles with little provocation. In other words, the incidence of chickenpox did not go down after vaccination, it was simply driven deeper into the organism by a contrary force and manifested later as a worse disease. This also negates the need for a contagion hypothesis.
I actually talk about exactly this in the podcast if you recall. Many people who understand viral transmission predicted this would happen. Yearly varicella respiratory transmission is an "immune booster" for adults, and helped prevent shingles. When we stopped the normal yearly circulation, we took away what was in effect a natural airborne vaccine. The solution, of course, is an unnatural, pharma-created vaccine with a very unfavourable NNV.
Well stated, Stephen. I believe I heard from a speaker on VCC that now that children are given a vaccine to prevent chicken pox, that it basically causes a shingles outbreak because we are not being exposed to chicken pox any longer. Correct me if I am wrong but that is what I think I heard the guest speaker saying.
That's a theory that isn't corroborated by research. which I suspect doesn't bother you much. The opposite is in fact true: people innoculated against chickenpox have a reduced chance of developing shingles.
Julie here: No one (at least in the podcast) disputed this. The theory is that because the majority of children are now vaccinated against chickenpox, it no longer circulates widely in the community. Thus adults (who are not vaccinated against chickenpox but were infected in the remote past) are not exposed to low levels of the virus on a regular basis--a situation that used to, in effect, give them a natural "booster" every year or two. Without this natural immune "booster" they are more prone to a reactivation of latent varicella virus, which results in shingles. It's actually the fact that the KIDS are vaccinated that makes the unvaccinated adults more vulnerable to shingles.
Hey Alison. Although I'm very open to this being true, its exactly the opposite of what my infectious disease colleagues have explained to me. It is entirely possible they are wrong and you are correct. Please post the link to the data and I'll have a boo and run it by them. Thanks.
Please, no ad hominem attacks. What my theory is countering is this idea that the chickenpox vaccine (whatever that concoction is made of) does not work in the way we suppose, i.e. stimulating the immune system to fight off a virus. What we might consider is that the morbific influence (vaccine) is just suppressing symptoms by making the child less healthy, so the disturbance is not exteriorized like typical chickenpox and thus avoids notice. Meanwhile, we have turned an acute childhood disease into a chronic lifelong disease or predisposition to disease. This could be true for all vaccines that appear to have beneficial effects. We are only imagining they are working as expected.
You do make a good distinction here -- less chickenpox traded for more shingles, but not necessarily in the same person. Perhaps you could provide a reference for your statement.
Unfortunately, this study adds little to the discussion. It is based on modeling, with a dash of wishful thinking, e.g. CP vaccine is 100% effective in 1-2 year olds. The researchers appear trapped in the grip of virology and vaccine dogma, parroting consensus ideas that on close examination remain unproven. If more than 60% of American children have at least one chronic illness and so many carry Epi-pens in their lunchboxes, it's probably time for a re-think.
Also, a study that shows vaccinated people get less shingles than unvaxxed would have to be well age standardized, since the biggest risk for shingles is age, and old people are unvaxxed/naturally immune whereas young people are vaxxed.
I had one once about 20 years ago. Since then I think I've had 'flu maybe twice. Not worth the risk. Clearly I don't really need the vax. Honestly, after the Covid debacle, I don't plan on having another vax...ever
I hear you. Public Health is dead to me. I trust them about as much as the guy who calls asking me to give him my credit card number so he can transfer my sweepstake winnings into the account.
Another drug that was given without tracking benefit or harm is puberty blockers and wrong sex hormones. Now that harms are known, Canada still pays for them. Are they a grift too?
Thanks for putting this together. Understanding how the flu vaccine industry works is essential for grasping how deeply-rooted the 'war on covid' was in already normalized junk science. An excellent (and highly readable) overview of the industry, along with a pretty convincing analysis of why it functions the way that it does, can be found in Peter Doshi's 2011 PhD dissertation:
Thanks for a great discussion. I have never had a flu shot. Every pharmaceutical, and every medical intervention exacts a price on the body. Some are worthwhile, many are not. I had the flu frequently when I started substitute teaching years ago, and never once since. Natural immunity works well. I look forward to a discussion on statins, the most prescribed drugs in North America.
We can no longer disregard the "non-specific" effects of these types of medical interventions. Not exactly sure what the underlying motivation is to keep this immuno-mythologicial ponzi scheme going. Could it just be good old lust for power, greed and fear of death? Or perhaps a mysterious hunger signal from God, pulling us forward into Singularity?
Great, I will listen. I have always been open to vaccines, and recently got a tetanus booster. For covid, I was skeptical given the rushed development and lack of experience, so I agreed to take two shots, which I considered to be the better choice of a series of bad options. I don't regret it but I will take no more. For the flu shot, I have been skeptical from the beginning and have never taken one once. I am not sure why, but something about the flu shot and its constant promotion got my spider senses tingling, in a bad way. I am now 60, I don't plan on taking one any time soon, but as I age may reconsider. My doc is trying to sell me on the shingles vaccine, and so far I have resisted.
I've never had one and will never get one. No. Nope. Never. I have an immune system that works really well and I have homeopathics to back me up, if need be. :)
Our province’s efforts to improve access actually made me pause long enough that I’ve decided to stop getting flu shots. Used to be that you could just get one on the fly at the pharmacy, if they weren’t busy (or, when I was in practice, I would get one from a colleague in the office). Now, you have to go onto the (Covid-induced) provincial software to be told which pharmacies with a supply are nearby and have open appointments. Every time I tried, my local pharmacies weren’t on the list, and I’m too lazy to travel. Furthermore, I’m a healthy 67, so the booking software wanted me to have the high dose stuff, which is supposedly more effective for senior citizens (based on who knows what evidence, although it’s certainly better for big Pharma, as it comes at a higher price). I wanted to make my own decision about what dose to take, and that was impermissible. In the end, I just couldn’t be bothered.
As a family doctor, it took so much time to explain the pros, cons and alternatives to patients coming in for flu shots that I finally gave each a consent form to sign in the waiting room that explained what was needed for informed consent. About half decided not to get it, but many got the shot for reasons such as "I always get it" and "My wife [a nurse] will kill me if I don't get it". A mixed result, even when we had evidence that the flu shot did not work.
Sounds very similar to my experience, and that of Dr. Zitner's. Some patients just really want vaccines. It makes them feel safe.
It's amazing how little thought so many people give to what they put into their bodies and how easily they abdicate responsibility for their own well-being, yielding to coercion instead of simply saying 'no'. I personally know of someone who, after taking a flu shot many years ago, was stricken with Guillain-Barre syndrome and was paralyzed for 3 months before eventually recovering.
I totally regret having a few in my life, and also giving them to some of my patients.
I knew they were useless. As I remember, it even said on the insert that they might help only a small percentage.
I took my last two because my husband was in Long Term Care with Lewy Body dementia, and the facility wanted all visitors to take them..... sounds like a familiar coercion now!
There was so much I didn't know!
Thankfully unlike some other vaccines (coff-coff) the flu shots seem fairly benign, or at least as far as we can tell, other than local reactions and feeling a little off for a day or two. So probably not a disaster to have had some.
Actually flu shot "side-effects" are the most compensated vaccine injury claims in the US. Perhaps this is related to the number given. I had a patient that developed Type 1 diabetes after a flu shot, so they are not benign by any means.
Why do some diseases like chickenpox appear to disappear after a vaccine program, but shingles (usually a much worse disease in many cases) then becomes more common and begins appearing in younger people? My theory is that the vaccine makes the person sicker by interfering with the "defense mechanism", so that a superficial acute disease like CP can not manifest. There is less "umph" to exteriorize the symptoms of chickenpox. Thus it stays in the deeper tissues, including the spinal cord, and, with a weakened host, more easily comes out as shingles with little provocation. In other words, the incidence of chickenpox did not go down after vaccination, it was simply driven deeper into the organism by a contrary force and manifested later as a worse disease. This also negates the need for a contagion hypothesis.
I actually talk about exactly this in the podcast if you recall. Many people who understand viral transmission predicted this would happen. Yearly varicella respiratory transmission is an "immune booster" for adults, and helped prevent shingles. When we stopped the normal yearly circulation, we took away what was in effect a natural airborne vaccine. The solution, of course, is an unnatural, pharma-created vaccine with a very unfavourable NNV.
Well stated, Stephen. I believe I heard from a speaker on VCC that now that children are given a vaccine to prevent chicken pox, that it basically causes a shingles outbreak because we are not being exposed to chicken pox any longer. Correct me if I am wrong but that is what I think I heard the guest speaker saying.
That's a theory that isn't corroborated by research. which I suspect doesn't bother you much. The opposite is in fact true: people innoculated against chickenpox have a reduced chance of developing shingles.
Julie here: No one (at least in the podcast) disputed this. The theory is that because the majority of children are now vaccinated against chickenpox, it no longer circulates widely in the community. Thus adults (who are not vaccinated against chickenpox but were infected in the remote past) are not exposed to low levels of the virus on a regular basis--a situation that used to, in effect, give them a natural "booster" every year or two. Without this natural immune "booster" they are more prone to a reactivation of latent varicella virus, which results in shingles. It's actually the fact that the KIDS are vaccinated that makes the unvaccinated adults more vulnerable to shingles.
Hey Alison. Although I'm very open to this being true, its exactly the opposite of what my infectious disease colleagues have explained to me. It is entirely possible they are wrong and you are correct. Please post the link to the data and I'll have a boo and run it by them. Thanks.
-Chris
Please, no ad hominem attacks. What my theory is countering is this idea that the chickenpox vaccine (whatever that concoction is made of) does not work in the way we suppose, i.e. stimulating the immune system to fight off a virus. What we might consider is that the morbific influence (vaccine) is just suppressing symptoms by making the child less healthy, so the disturbance is not exteriorized like typical chickenpox and thus avoids notice. Meanwhile, we have turned an acute childhood disease into a chronic lifelong disease or predisposition to disease. This could be true for all vaccines that appear to have beneficial effects. We are only imagining they are working as expected.
You do make a good distinction here -- less chickenpox traded for more shingles, but not necessarily in the same person. Perhaps you could provide a reference for your statement.
https://elifesciences.org/for-the-press/1ccc3639/chickenpox-vaccination-does-increase-shingles-cases-but-mainly-in-young-adults
Unfortunately, this study adds little to the discussion. It is based on modeling, with a dash of wishful thinking, e.g. CP vaccine is 100% effective in 1-2 year olds. The researchers appear trapped in the grip of virology and vaccine dogma, parroting consensus ideas that on close examination remain unproven. If more than 60% of American children have at least one chronic illness and so many carry Epi-pens in their lunchboxes, it's probably time for a re-think.
PS: of interest: https://elifesciences.org/for-the-press/1ccc3639/chickenpox-vaccination-does-increase-shingles-cases-but-mainly-in-young-adults
Also, a study that shows vaccinated people get less shingles than unvaxxed would have to be well age standardized, since the biggest risk for shingles is age, and old people are unvaxxed/naturally immune whereas young people are vaxxed.
"Research" conducted by Big PHarma, right?
I've never had one and will continue to skip mine as well! Great article full of valuable links that I can't wait to dig into tomorrow.
Thank you for all you're doing here! 🙏🏻🩵
I had one once about 20 years ago. Since then I think I've had 'flu maybe twice. Not worth the risk. Clearly I don't really need the vax. Honestly, after the Covid debacle, I don't plan on having another vax...ever
I hear you. Public Health is dead to me. I trust them about as much as the guy who calls asking me to give him my credit card number so he can transfer my sweepstake winnings into the account.
Another drug that was given without tracking benefit or harm is puberty blockers and wrong sex hormones. Now that harms are known, Canada still pays for them. Are they a grift too?
Yes and they always were. Irreversible damage.
Thanks for putting this together. Understanding how the flu vaccine industry works is essential for grasping how deeply-rooted the 'war on covid' was in already normalized junk science. An excellent (and highly readable) overview of the industry, along with a pretty convincing analysis of why it functions the way that it does, can be found in Peter Doshi's 2011 PhD dissertation:
https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/69811
If anything, Doshi's work is even more important now than it was 14 years ago.
Thanks for a great discussion. I have never had a flu shot. Every pharmaceutical, and every medical intervention exacts a price on the body. Some are worthwhile, many are not. I had the flu frequently when I started substitute teaching years ago, and never once since. Natural immunity works well. I look forward to a discussion on statins, the most prescribed drugs in North America.
Thanks for that. I am VERY interested in the question of statins, and Dr. Zitner is very knowledgeable, so stay tuned...
We can no longer disregard the "non-specific" effects of these types of medical interventions. Not exactly sure what the underlying motivation is to keep this immuno-mythologicial ponzi scheme going. Could it just be good old lust for power, greed and fear of death? Or perhaps a mysterious hunger signal from God, pulling us forward into Singularity?
Great, I will listen. I have always been open to vaccines, and recently got a tetanus booster. For covid, I was skeptical given the rushed development and lack of experience, so I agreed to take two shots, which I considered to be the better choice of a series of bad options. I don't regret it but I will take no more. For the flu shot, I have been skeptical from the beginning and have never taken one once. I am not sure why, but something about the flu shot and its constant promotion got my spider senses tingling, in a bad way. I am now 60, I don't plan on taking one any time soon, but as I age may reconsider. My doc is trying to sell me on the shingles vaccine, and so far I have resisted.
I've never had one and will never get one. No. Nope. Never. I have an immune system that works really well and I have homeopathics to back me up, if need be. :)
Our province’s efforts to improve access actually made me pause long enough that I’ve decided to stop getting flu shots. Used to be that you could just get one on the fly at the pharmacy, if they weren’t busy (or, when I was in practice, I would get one from a colleague in the office). Now, you have to go onto the (Covid-induced) provincial software to be told which pharmacies with a supply are nearby and have open appointments. Every time I tried, my local pharmacies weren’t on the list, and I’m too lazy to travel. Furthermore, I’m a healthy 67, so the booking software wanted me to have the high dose stuff, which is supposedly more effective for senior citizens (based on who knows what evidence, although it’s certainly better for big Pharma, as it comes at a higher price). I wanted to make my own decision about what dose to take, and that was impermissible. In the end, I just couldn’t be bothered.
No.
I would like to get a paid subscription....but would prefer e-transfer to credit card...is that possible?
Hey that's so kind of you. I had thought Substack allowed CC payment? If not contact me at milburn dot chris at
gmail dot com.
No