I caught measles at age 13 or 14 in about 1977/78. I got pretty sick, I was out of school for several weeks and mostly in bed and had a high fever and was pretty sick, BUT it no one was especially super concerned, and I recovered fully. I don't get the current panics, although you explain it all well.
Julie here--I had a similar experience, though I was only off school for maybe a week or so. VERY sick, fever, photophobia, no fun at all. But I never required hospitalization and nobody was particularly worried. "Just the measles" was the verdict. Still, at that age I would likely have chosen to take a vaccine to avoid being that miserable!
back when the Wakefield autism issue arose, I don't know what was happening here but in UK many parents decided to go down the road of using single vaccines as they had not lost trust yet in vaccines but did not trust the PH reassurance that sticking as many vaccines as you could in one needle was entirely without risk. Great efforts were made by many parents to get individual jabs privately. So PH, who believed individual vaccines increased risk of incomplete course arranged for gubmint to remove the product licences of the individual vaccines which removed their availability, and dragged Dr Wakefield before the GMC. PH demand we all trust the (wo)man from the ministry and will act in any way to achieve their aims, with fear psyops, reputational assault, exaggerations and lies now major tools....and always refusal to accept vaccine damage.
Julie here: Wow, that is a disturbing story. If I had a baby right now, individual vaccine choices--and more variability in the timing of when they are given-- might be exactly what I'd be be looking for. I'd really have to think hard about it.
This is the one vaccine that my husband and I are on the fence about for our 3rd (& unfortunately last baby following complications in pregnancy- placenta accreta requiring cesarean hysterectomy at IWK @ 35 weeks).
Our second child, we have NO doubt in our mind was injured by the dTAP vaccine although our FD thinks we are just ‘crazy’ and tin foil hat wearers. Kind of why we won’t vaccinate anymore… or so our stance is now.
To find a professional that you can actually discuss risk/benefit is non existent. Which means we are left stressing about this on our own.
It is hard to find docs who don't automatically dismiss adverse vaccine events, or are equipped with enough factual knowledge to have an informed discussion about risks and benefits. I wouldn't even include myself as one necessarily. If it helps, I can put you in touch with people who have been through the same decision process.
I came from a family of 5 so we didn't need to go to measles parties, someone always brought something home for the entire family. The only party type I remember was for mumps because Mom knew it was important to get it while we were young, especially the four boys.
I generously brought chicken pox home for all my brothers. My older brothers were in their teens by then so got very ill compared to me. They are still grumpy about that!
I came down with measles in 1982 in my 20’s, having also had it as a kid, so perhaps it was a different strain. I learned that there were many similar adult cases, causing speculation that the early inoculations used may have been inactive. In any event, I feel much more confident building up my immune system by healthy living, and taking doses of Vitamins D3 & K2. Our medical system over incentivizes pharmaceutical treatments instead of prevention, and is failing to prove a cost/benefit result that taxpayers like me can justify.
A great and timely article Julie and Chris. They love calling those of us who do not put blind trust in vaccines - 'anti-vaxxers'. This is an insulting word that raises the dander with some of us. But now I say, I will wear that label proudly if it means staying away from things that can cause so much harm. To get my adult children to listen - that is another story. I hold my breath each time the grandchildren are jabbed. And by the way, I had measles, mumps, chicken pox, and whooping cough as a kid and I have enjoyed lifelong health. Ah the Brady Bunch - a much simpler time in our lives.
Agreed-great article. In our family, my husband and I had measles, mumps and rubella - a natural form. Our children had same. No serious illness but home often comparing who in family got most spots or biggest swollen glands.
Our grandchildren all 20-26 yrs. now, were given the measles vaccine and now they may be susceptible to the measles in this age bracket as the vaccine they had does not give lifetime immunity. So what are they to do- pregnancy and measles can be problematic especially in early stages of pregnancy. Thankful for the new team in place at NIH.
Very hard to find. Interestingly, I have a post half-written which touches on that.
What I can tell you is that the "NNT" or "NNV" (the number needed to treat, or to vaccinate in this case, to prevent one case of shingles) is not great. The very most rosy estimates (coming from drug-company sponsored data) show that for every 10 people who get a vaccine, one will avoid getting shingles. But since shingles itself is not a big deal, that's probably not the important number. For preventing "Post-Herpetic Neuralgia" - a prolonged pain that can occur in some cases of shingles, the number is at very best 1/35 and at worst 1/350. ie: there is only a small chance that the vaccine will help you, and even taking the best case scenario, there are 90% odds it will do nothing to help you.
I came at it differently. According to various sites, one million people a year in the US get shingles. Most get it after age 50. The US population aged 50+ is 125 million. So, the annual incidence of shingles is 1/125, or less than 1%. The shingles vaccine is about 50% effective at preventing shingles. Ergo, without vaccine, your chance of NOT getting shingles in any given year is better than 99%. With vaccine, you raise the odds to 99.5%.
Going further, not all shingles is consequential. I’ve seen people with a couple of itchy spots somewhere on their trunk. When I had it, it was a few spots on my butt. Not painful, no sequelae. A very small fraction get the ocular involvement or the post-herpetic neuralgia. Your odds of those, without vaccine, are more like 1 in 500, and you might improve that to 1 in 1000 by getting zoster vaccine.
I'm still confused, is the vaccine 10% effective (based on NNT), or 50% effective, at preventing shingles cases? What is the correct interpretation of the 50% effective claim?
Now the cast of the Brady bunch is saying they are embarrassed of this show and they did t know better. What a disgrace and shows they are more bought and paid for lunatics.
Maureen McCormick (Marcua Brady):She has publicly stated that she disapproves of the anti-vaccination group's actions and the use of her image in this context.
It feels very much like the re-writing of history that happened in Russia, where photos and documents were doctored to make it seem as if some people and things had never existed. Very George Orwell. "We have always taken measles seriously and we always treated it as a deadly killer" is the same as "We have always been at war with Oceania"
I had measles as a child, some years before that Brady Bunch episode, and I can confirm that that is how measles was treated in the 1960s and 70s. No big deal. It was not even much of an inconvenience for the family when most moms were at home. Everyone got the infection and thereafter had lifelong immunity.
Measles was treated as just another childhood illness and was only serious in a few children. Measles were going down drastically and this is when they introduced the measles vaccine which increased deaths. No different then chickenpox where parents were encouraged to through party’s to build natural immunity.
I caught measles at age 13 or 14 in about 1977/78. I got pretty sick, I was out of school for several weeks and mostly in bed and had a high fever and was pretty sick, BUT it no one was especially super concerned, and I recovered fully. I don't get the current panics, although you explain it all well.
Julie here--I had a similar experience, though I was only off school for maybe a week or so. VERY sick, fever, photophobia, no fun at all. But I never required hospitalization and nobody was particularly worried. "Just the measles" was the verdict. Still, at that age I would likely have chosen to take a vaccine to avoid being that miserable!
Yeah, similar. I never knew there even WAS a measles vaccine at the time, I dont think it was standard practice to get it. Hence I got measles.
back when the Wakefield autism issue arose, I don't know what was happening here but in UK many parents decided to go down the road of using single vaccines as they had not lost trust yet in vaccines but did not trust the PH reassurance that sticking as many vaccines as you could in one needle was entirely without risk. Great efforts were made by many parents to get individual jabs privately. So PH, who believed individual vaccines increased risk of incomplete course arranged for gubmint to remove the product licences of the individual vaccines which removed their availability, and dragged Dr Wakefield before the GMC. PH demand we all trust the (wo)man from the ministry and will act in any way to achieve their aims, with fear psyops, reputational assault, exaggerations and lies now major tools....and always refusal to accept vaccine damage.
Julie here: Wow, that is a disturbing story. If I had a baby right now, individual vaccine choices--and more variability in the timing of when they are given-- might be exactly what I'd be be looking for. I'd really have to think hard about it.
This is the one vaccine that my husband and I are on the fence about for our 3rd (& unfortunately last baby following complications in pregnancy- placenta accreta requiring cesarean hysterectomy at IWK @ 35 weeks).
Our second child, we have NO doubt in our mind was injured by the dTAP vaccine although our FD thinks we are just ‘crazy’ and tin foil hat wearers. Kind of why we won’t vaccinate anymore… or so our stance is now.
To find a professional that you can actually discuss risk/benefit is non existent. Which means we are left stressing about this on our own.
It is hard to find docs who don't automatically dismiss adverse vaccine events, or are equipped with enough factual knowledge to have an informed discussion about risks and benefits. I wouldn't even include myself as one necessarily. If it helps, I can put you in touch with people who have been through the same decision process.
Katrina, check Vaccine Choice Canada. They have a ton of information.
I came from a family of 5 so we didn't need to go to measles parties, someone always brought something home for the entire family. The only party type I remember was for mumps because Mom knew it was important to get it while we were young, especially the four boys.
I generously brought chicken pox home for all my brothers. My older brothers were in their teens by then so got very ill compared to me. They are still grumpy about that!
I got chicken pox when I was 12 and also the only time the circus ever came to our little town. Was I ever pissed!
I came down with measles in 1982 in my 20’s, having also had it as a kid, so perhaps it was a different strain. I learned that there were many similar adult cases, causing speculation that the early inoculations used may have been inactive. In any event, I feel much more confident building up my immune system by healthy living, and taking doses of Vitamins D3 & K2. Our medical system over incentivizes pharmaceutical treatments instead of prevention, and is failing to prove a cost/benefit result that taxpayers like me can justify.
Ha ha! Measle-y friends! I trust the doctor who says they don't have all the answers .
A great and timely article Julie and Chris. They love calling those of us who do not put blind trust in vaccines - 'anti-vaxxers'. This is an insulting word that raises the dander with some of us. But now I say, I will wear that label proudly if it means staying away from things that can cause so much harm. To get my adult children to listen - that is another story. I hold my breath each time the grandchildren are jabbed. And by the way, I had measles, mumps, chicken pox, and whooping cough as a kid and I have enjoyed lifelong health. Ah the Brady Bunch - a much simpler time in our lives.
Very interesting, informative and “sensible”! I agree… the bottom line is that we should have a choice in vaccinating or not.
Agreed-great article. In our family, my husband and I had measles, mumps and rubella - a natural form. Our children had same. No serious illness but home often comparing who in family got most spots or biggest swollen glands.
Our grandchildren all 20-26 yrs. now, were given the measles vaccine and now they may be susceptible to the measles in this age bracket as the vaccine they had does not give lifetime immunity. So what are they to do- pregnancy and measles can be problematic especially in early stages of pregnancy. Thankful for the new team in place at NIH.
Another great post as usual, thanks.
I am looking for reliable information on the shingles vax. Anyone have suggestions as to where to look?
Very hard to find. Interestingly, I have a post half-written which touches on that.
What I can tell you is that the "NNT" or "NNV" (the number needed to treat, or to vaccinate in this case, to prevent one case of shingles) is not great. The very most rosy estimates (coming from drug-company sponsored data) show that for every 10 people who get a vaccine, one will avoid getting shingles. But since shingles itself is not a big deal, that's probably not the important number. For preventing "Post-Herpetic Neuralgia" - a prolonged pain that can occur in some cases of shingles, the number is at very best 1/35 and at worst 1/350. ie: there is only a small chance that the vaccine will help you, and even taking the best case scenario, there are 90% odds it will do nothing to help you.
I came at it differently. According to various sites, one million people a year in the US get shingles. Most get it after age 50. The US population aged 50+ is 125 million. So, the annual incidence of shingles is 1/125, or less than 1%. The shingles vaccine is about 50% effective at preventing shingles. Ergo, without vaccine, your chance of NOT getting shingles in any given year is better than 99%. With vaccine, you raise the odds to 99.5%.
Going further, not all shingles is consequential. I’ve seen people with a couple of itchy spots somewhere on their trunk. When I had it, it was a few spots on my butt. Not painful, no sequelae. A very small fraction get the ocular involvement or the post-herpetic neuralgia. Your odds of those, without vaccine, are more like 1 in 500, and you might improve that to 1 in 1000 by getting zoster vaccine.
To me, it wasn’t worth it.
Great stuff from two of the sanest folk on (I guess we can call it) social media!
Thanks Rick - very wise and more accurate than my answer.
I'm still confused, is the vaccine 10% effective (based on NNT), or 50% effective, at preventing shingles cases? What is the correct interpretation of the 50% effective claim?
Thanks Rick!
Thank you.
I just read a piece about how the shingles vax gives you shingles. Now if I can remember where I read it, I’ll post it here for you.
Now the cast of the Brady bunch is saying they are embarrassed of this show and they did t know better. What a disgrace and shows they are more bought and paid for lunatics.
Maureen McCormick (Marcua Brady):She has publicly stated that she disapproves of the anti-vaccination group's actions and the use of her image in this context.
It feels very much like the re-writing of history that happened in Russia, where photos and documents were doctored to make it seem as if some people and things had never existed. Very George Orwell. "We have always taken measles seriously and we always treated it as a deadly killer" is the same as "We have always been at war with Oceania"
I had measles as a child, some years before that Brady Bunch episode, and I can confirm that that is how measles was treated in the 1960s and 70s. No big deal. It was not even much of an inconvenience for the family when most moms were at home. Everyone got the infection and thereafter had lifelong immunity.
Measles was treated as just another childhood illness and was only serious in a few children. Measles were going down drastically and this is when they introduced the measles vaccine which increased deaths. No different then chickenpox where parents were encouraged to through party’s to build natural immunity.
There are several diseases with the same symptoms as “Measles” and no real test to tell the difference.